Interview with Rachel Pollack
Alex B. Crowther
(This interview first appeared on Aeclectic.net,
reproduced with permission)
Rachel Pollack’s literary credits include Teach
Yourself Fortune Telling; The Body of the Goddess: Sacred
Wisdom in Myth, Landscape and Culture; The Power of Ritual; Tarot
texts for the the Haindl, Salvador Dali and Vertigo decks;
comic books Doom Patrol, The New Gods and Time Breakers
and the 78 Degrees of Wisdom, originally published
in two volumes but now available as a single revised
edition. She also created the Shining Tribe Tarot (formerly
Shining Woman) deck and book sets.
 My
interview with Rachel Pollack was over the phone to her
home in upstate New York. From the moment she answered
the phone I knew it was going to be a fascinating interview.
Of all the people within the world of Tarot I have spoken
with Rachel Pollack was genuinely the most enjoyable thus
far.
She was open, relaxed and spoke with a very friendly,
laid-back kind of grace. Ten minutes into the interview
I felt as though I was getting reacquainted with an old
friend. Diane Wilkes has described her as “a literary
descendant of the sculptor, painter, architect and poet
Michelangelo, in terms of range and prowess”. I would
go further as to compare her with the Tarot card Empress.
Her natural, worldliness and spiritual endowment was evident
as we spoke. If ever the opportunity for me to meet Rachel
Pollack in person arises I will take it without a doubt.
After 8 years of reading the Tarot you began to write
78 Degrees of Wisdom. What was the catalyst for this?
I was staying at a beach house with a friend and she
asked me to teach her how to read the tarot, from this
I began to form lessons to teach classes and the book actually
evolved from my original class lesson material.
You began reading by using the Rider Waite deck. Do
you see this deck as being the definitive system say in
comparison to Marseilles or Thoth?
The Rider Waite deck was really the only available deck
at that time. There wasn’t a lot of decks being published
as there are today. I think there really is no definitive
system within the actual Tarot decks. It is like an art
form which conveys similar messages but by use of different
artistic mediums.
Do you see Tarot as being a tool for one’s intuition
or is it purely academic?
It would be a shame to approach the Tarot purely from
an academic viewpoint. I think it is important to learn
the traditional meanings, where the system comes from,
but one needs to go back to intuitive results. I tell people
to love the images... get to know them from a spiritual
viewpoint. By all means learn the intended meanings after
all there is no point in discounting what these meanings
are intended for. It would also be pointless to approach
the cards only from an intuitive prospective, there must
be a healthy balance between the two. At this point I would
say that no one deck is more correct than the other in
this approach.
The book you wrote to accompany the Haindl Deck could
almost be used in much the same way as your 78 Degrees
of Wisdom despite it being written about a specific deck.
Was that your intention?
Well, a lot of my experience and prior knowledge about
Tarot is certainly reflected in that book, however it contains
a universal quality with spiritual meaning that did not
have anything to do with my original connections with Tarot.
However it definitely adds a sense of value with the artist
Hermann Haindl.
What impact did Hermann Haindl have on you in regards
to your previous experience with the Rider Waite type decks?
Got me over my previous prejudice with the Germans...
coming from a Jewish background. When I travelled to Germany
to meet with him I thought “my gosh I’m in
Germany”. His artwork was so reflective and allowed
me to open more.
Your deck the Shining Woman was re-released in 2001
as the Shining Tribe. Why the name change?
Firstly, it was a practical name change. When I realised
there was a perception that this deck was geared towards
women only and that men could not use it I was a little
concerned. I wanted people to know it was not a sexist
deck. The re-issue also contained new qualities I wanted
to improve on, such as some colour changes. I wasn’t
fully comfortable with in the original deck. Secondly,
I wanted to convey a concept of tribe... people who use
the Tarot have a tribal aspect sense of community with
each other and I wanted this deck to reflect that.
Can you explain the naming of the minors? (Trees = wands,
Rivers = cups, Birds = Swords, Stones = Pentacles)
I like the idea of the cards as being of nature rather
than a human invention such as a sword or wand. The tribal
aspect of my deck has a sense of spirituality which cannot
be reflected in human made objects.
You have also renamed the court cards in the Shining
Tribe deck. What was your intention here?
Well other cards are usually conceptual and traditional
court cards are boring (laughs). Mine are a concept of
development, reflecting that achievement is not alien.
A somewhat different take on the same issues. The overall
deck is powerful for a direct dialogue with your spiritual
issues. It is really great for deep readings, but I think
it also contains a sense of fun also. Tarot should not
always be conceived as a deeply serious medium it can be
fun with you as well at times.
There are many theories as to the origins of the Tarot.
What is your take on this subject?
I think it is very valuable to see what the myths are
surrounding the origins of the Tarot. There has certainly
been a lot more research over the past few decades in this
regard. It is evident the physical conceptualisation of
the Tarot was during the Renaissance period and that is
practical because that is the time a lot of ideas were
put down into material ideas. However the ideas and esoteric
purpose of the Tarot system certainly stems from previous
traditions. The Tarot has existed forever, but it probably
wasn’t until around this period that physical concept
was developed.
With so many new decks on the market now do you think
the Tarot still holds the same relevance to people?
I think it is becoming more relevant. It is no longer
monolithic. It’s wonderful that it is being conceptualised
in so many artistic ways.
Your new book The Forest of Souls: A Walk Through The
Tarot is a new direction for you in your Tarot writings,
what lead you towards this?
This book is very special to me personally, it comes
from the deepest place of my life and heart. It was conceived
from my spiritual understanding of the Tarot and is a tool
to be used for soul investigation. To enrich what the Universe
is about.
You do enter a type of “spiritual quest” in
the book. So The Forest of Souls: A Walk Through The Tarot
lends the idea of the Tarot being more than just a crystal
ball and you use a musical assimilation to reflect this.
Yes, divination is more than just finding out things.
The word “divine” is derived through the objective
of communicating with your God(s). The book guides you
to go beyond your normal dimensions. It clarifies the use
of the Tarot as something more than just a fortune telling
device. My intention within the book is to open up the
whole purpose of the Tarot spiritually. The Tarot is an
instrument of our wisdom. I see the Golden Dawn and people
such as Arthur Waite and Aleister Crowley as being much
like classical music. There is no room for error in interpreting
the notes and how the music should be played. World music
are the cultural Tarots there is that same consciousness
as the music. Jazz music represents the contemporary readers.
They know the general structure, but are open to spontaneity
whilst still allowing the basic structure to remain.
An interesting concept on the book was to ask the Tarot
how they work. Does the book better acquaint you with the
system of Tarot moreover than the idea of fortune telling?
People will be inspired to actually use the Tarot. Nobody
ever “asks” the cards. The Tarot is there for
theorising, using, gain understanding and to see a purpose.
I hope even people who never intend to use Tarot cards
will read The Forest of Souls: A Walk Through The Tarot
because it will help them to gain a universal prospective.
The book offers itself as a guide through one’s spirituality
and the deities of the Tarot system rather than a card
by card list of meanings. There are some wonderful new
spreads I have introduced to gain an insight to spiritual
understanding.
If you were on a dessert island and could only take
one Tarot card with you what would it be?
Only one? (with a laugh). Oh I’d have to say the
Emperor to get in charge of my environment. I have to add
a few others though. The Empress to enjoy myself and nature
around me, the Chariot for a sense of clear direction and
definitely the Magician so that I could create something
out of nothing in order to survive.
What advice do you offer today’s Tarotists?
Let the images work on you. Work with them openly and
don’t be afraid to experiment.
.o0o.
Thank you to Alex Crowther for permission to republish
this recent interview. Rachel Pollack is expected to be
one of the key presenters at the forthcoming conference.
Photo by Helle Agathe Beierholm.
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